Date Published: 07/06/11

Abacha better than Obasanjo -Jeremiah Useni
…Abacha was Sick and Died
…Grant Amnesty To Boko Haram
… Jonathan Administration will lead to good governance
… I never stole $900 Billion or £9 Billion

Gen. Jeremiah Useni

General Jeremiah Timbut Useni (retd) is the national chairman of the Democratic Peoples Party (DPP). In this interview he granted the retired general, who is also a former minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), describes any attempt at comparing the late General Sani Abacha with former president Olusegun Obasanjo as an insult. He also shares his view on the discordant tunes trailing the affairs of the North, and the amnesty programme of the federal government, among other issues.

“It is unfortunate.  When such thing happen, it is easy for people to start castigating some other fellows for failure. You should remember that one tree cannot form a forest. I understand from the newspapers that even the bomber was in the convoy of the IG who was coming from Maiduguri.”

Q: What is your assessment of the Jonathan administration?

I welcome his administration and I have all along felt that his emergence will lead to good governance.

Q: This is surprising coming from someone from the opposition.

That should not surprise you. Opposition does not mean not appreciating something that is good.

Q: How is your party faring?

Well, not bad.  Despite the magumagu, we are not one of the parties to be deregistered.  So far, we have a seat in the Senate and two members in the House of Reps.  We also have 11 members of the state House of Assembly.

Q: How comes the party that started in Sokoto is now making waves in Delta State?

The party did not start in Sokoto; it was a joint effort.  The DPP was formed after the ANPP governors, except Bafarawa, decided to support the third term agenda. As members of the ANPP, we were against third term.  We that were against tenure elongation agenda teamed up to form the DPP. Bafarawa was only one of the ANPP governors that joined in the formation of the party because he was against third term. That he was the only governor in the then new party did not mean that he was the only one that formed the DPP. We sat down and decided to choose the name, DPP.  After Bafarawa failed in the 2007 presidential poll, he never showed any interest again up till the time he left us to join Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN).  That is how DPP was formed and I don’t know how people get the impression that it was Bafarawa that formed the DPP.  We jointly formed the party and we created structures to sustain it.

Q: Bafarawa being a financier of the DPP, many people are surprised that you did not follow him to the ACN.

( Cuts in) If you agree to form a party, and each person agrees to contribute money according to his financial status, then it means joint ownership. The person who contributes the most does not become the owner of the party.

Q: Jonathan had promised to hit the ground running by appointing ministers within two weeks of his inauguration. Nearly a month after his inauguration he is yet to appoint members of his cabinet. What is your reaction?

I do not belong to the PDP and I am not in a position to know what he is doing.  It is difficult for me to answer the question, but I think he is engaged in consultation and meeting with the party on what to do. Probably, he is talking to stakeholders. You know he cannot pick ministers on his own without consultation with his party.  He has to wait for nominations from governors, party and other people who contributed to his victory. He has to listen to people who made heavy financial contribution to his party during the polls. It is expected that President Jonathan consults with relevant stakeholders before announcing members of his cabinet. I don’t really see one month as a long time in deciding who he appoints as ministers. There have been constant changes in nominations and this forms part of the consultations.

Q: We want to have your opinion on the screening of ministerial nominees by the State Security Service (SSS). Many people do not see reason why the SSS should be involved in something that is not recognized by the nation’s laws. Is this practice a re-enactment of the military era or can you give us an account on how ministers were screened?

During the military era, the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) was not there.  There was no security agency that called you to discuss with you.  But you should not forget that within the military we knew ourselves, unlike the present times when people joined political parties and no one knows about them. When such people are nominated for ministerial positions, there should be a means through which they can be screened.  In the military your cadetship records are kept by the military secretary, but in the parties it is not so.  You cannot be a criminal and be in the military. If you are to be appointed during a military regime, you would be approached and there is no hiding place. But in politics, if you want to appoint someone as a minster, you have to screen them. You may be surprised that some of the nominees are not known to the President. If you must screen them, then you must ask them to send CVs.

Q: But do you have to screen them by calling them for a face-to-face interaction?

If there are questions to be asked, I see no reason why they should not be called.

Q: During the military era, there were civilians that were appointed as ministers. How were they screened?

In appointing ministers during the military era, a lot of background work was done. Some time, the Head of State would call the nominee and announce his intention to appoint such a person as minister. That is done to ensure that the fellow is not opposed to the appointment.  Getting the consent of the person was necessary. The military does not announce someone without informing such a person.

Q: What is your take on this bomb blast at the Louis Edet House?

It is unfortunate.  When such thing happens, it is easy for people to start castigating some other fellows for failure. You should remember that one tree cannot form a forest. I understand from the newspapers that even the bomber was in the convoy of the IG who was coming from Maiduguri. Those in the convoy did not notice that there was a strange car and that is a problem. When I was minister, I made sure that the convoy was not made up of more than five cars. Once I noticed that there were more than five cars, I called the attention of my chief security officer or my ADC to verify other cars in the convoy. Someone got to open his eyes. That this man was in the convoy of the IG from Maiduguri shows that there was something wrong.

Q: Some people are calling for amnesty for Boko Haram members. What do you think the government should do?

A precedent has been set in the Niger Delta, where you have dialogue with people kidnapping people and you organize training for them; you pay them and shake their hands, etc. So, why not do the same for the same group since you have already set precedence?  In the first place, I never liked the idea.

Q: Is it because you are a military man?

No, not because I am a military man.

Q: So, you believe that amnesty cannot solve the Niger Delta problem?

If they had voluntarily surrendered their arms, you can forgive and pardon them. But when they don’t, then, I don’t understand the idea of amnesty.

Q: But there is peace in the Niger Delta because of the amnesty.

Are there no kidnappings going on right now in the Niger Delta?  I read in the newspapers that one of the oil companies had to shut down some of its production. If you want to resolve the issue of the Niger Delta, then you have to find out who are the leaders of the region.  I was the governor of former Bendel State, and I remember visiting an area being affected by oil spillage. The grasses had turned yellow as a result of the spillage. I really pitied them. There was no road and when I was to visit the area, we used a helicopter and had to trek for over two kilometers to see a local chief. When we arrived, and I was introduced as the governor, he said, “No, this is not the governor.”  He never expected me to be dressed in a particular way. He welcomed us and he never knew who I was. I never took an offence.

I decided to invite all heads of oil companies to assess what they were doing. Professor Tam David-West was then the oil minister. When he got the report that I had invited heads of the oil companies for a meeting, he reported me to the Chief of Staff, General Tunde Idiagbon.  When Idiagbon told me that the minister of petroleum was complaining over my invitation to oil companies for a meeting, I told the chief of staff that David-West was not a part of the coup that that brought the government to power. If the coup had failed, David-West would not have been listed for shooting. “In any case, I am the one who knew what was happening in the state; the person who wears the shoes knows where it pinches”. I advised Idiagbon not to listen to David-West just as I appealed to him to allow me to do my job.

When the heads of the oil companies finally showed up at the meeting, I gave them lunch and got the best of wine for them in order to make them relax.  It was after that meeting that some of them resolved to pursue projects to improve the conditions of the people by providing basic infrastructure for their host communities. The oil companies even wrote me to thank me for doing what I did.  David-West was even happy because I helped him to do his job.

Q: As a leader of the Arewa Consultative Forum (ACF), what measures have you put in place to avert  the incessant  violence in the area, be it Boko Haram or ethno-religious conflicts?

Let me inform you that the ACF is expected to meet on June 30, 2011 to discuss on some of these issues.  It has been a source of concern and you have to note that there are diverse interests.  The ACF is an NGO and we do not have the money; we need the assistance of the state governors. We had to bring the issue and the stakeholders to find a way forward. Look at the almajiri problem, we need to discuss on how to get things moving. Very rich people believe that they need almajiri to give alms so as to get the blessings of God.  The governors of the North are yet to tackle the almajiri issue. Even after some state governments had tried to put them in one place, they soon run way because the government may not have the money to cater for their needs. ACF needs the cooperation of the state governors as the forum does not have the means to ensure their rehabilitation. During the Tiv/Jukun war, we got the parties in the conflict to meet and find a means of resolving the crises.  We created groups and got the various sides in dialogue.  After the meetings of the various groups, we saw the governors of Benue, Taraba and Adamawa to find a way of resolving and ensuring that agreements reached at the various meeting were implemented.  The governors finally agreed to release funds for transportation and feeding for displaced persons.

Q: What that means is that the ACF needs the cooperation of the northern governors.

We need them because we are an NGO, and we do not have any budget.

Q: You inherited a peaceful North. How do you feel now that the area has been characterized by violence?

I think things are bad and as a leader, I feel very bad. I remember that at meetings what is happening is very bad. You still have a group that calls themselves leaders of the North. When there is a meeting of Board of Trustees and executive committee, I preside over.  Since I have taken over the leadership of these groups, I have never had cause to complain over such happenings. The impression is that we are not united and it is not good for us to wash our dirty linen in the public. Look at the politics and see how the PDP infiltrated into ACF.  The ACF is not a political party and it was not wise for the ACF to have gotten involved in the zoning palaver that raged during the pre-election period.  You had the so-called Northern leader group that was made up of PDP members. How many leaders of the North were really leaders when they chose Atiku as consensus presidential candidate for the North?   They said Atiku was consensus for the North instead of saying that Atiku was the consensus candidate for the PDP North.  Could you say that Atiku was consensus for PDP South? This is the confusion in the North that we are trying to resolve.

Q: Thirteen years after General Abacha, do you think the country has been fair to him?

All along, the government has not been fair to him. You see, Abacha was a cool-headed person. People think we never discussed at the council meeting. Abacha would allow everyone to say his mind even though he would seem to be asleep, but he listened to everybody.  He allowed everybody to speak except you never wanted to talk. He was not the type that would say, “I know what you want to say, next person.” We know them and they are mister-know-all. Look at it, when we took over, everyone knew what the foreign reserve was. Abacha took it up to $9 billion.  Abdulsalam took over and it was reduced to about two or three billion dollars.  Abacha did not study Economics in any university, but he was an economist.  Professor Sam Aluko can testify to that.  People would say, “Open a window for these people to come in,” Abacha would say, “Which window? Go and open the door and let them come in.”

During Abacha regime, the dollar was still between N74 and N80. Abacha was against allowing Western countries to give us loans and at the same time dictate the manner of how such loans were spent.  Abacha never took a penny as loan and that was how the World Bank closed down its office in Nigeria and the West never liked it.  To the West, he was teaching some African countries how to be tough. He was committed to Nigeria and some African countries saw in Nigeria a role model and the West never liked that. They respected Abacha and they never liked his policies because he was against their interest.  The way Abacha handled the economy no African leader has done that.

Q: What about the stolen funds traced to his accounts?

Which stolen funds? Abacha was a rich man as his father was a businessman. The man was shrewd, as some of us were using second-hand cars, while Abacha was using a new Peugeot car. I am not trying to defend anything that has been earned through corruption. If you see the amount of money they are accusing Abacha of having stolen, it becomes a child’s play when compared with that of Abacha. When I left power, they accused me of having $900 billion and £9 billion in foreign accounts. But all these were mere figment of imagination of some people who were desperate to paint me black.  There was nothing they did not write about me. They thought that since I was close to Abacha, I was stealing.  My friendship with Abacha was not for stealing. If you accused me of stealing, how much did you find in my account? When I became governor Idiagbon wrote to us that if we have foreign accounts, we should close them. I closed my account in London in which I had £150.  I do not have any foreign account.

Q: Did you mean to say that you have no foreign account?

I don’t.

Q: How much do you have in Nigerian bank accounts?

Enough to keep me going! ( General laughter). I believe in sharing with my relations. That is why they gave me the name, Timbut, which means ‘stay together.’ My father was working with the Native Authority, and he died with the bicycle I bought for him.  I worked as the FCT minister for five years and Julius Berger did not build me a house. But ministers that are less than nine months in office have their houses built by Julius Berger.  So many ministers had their houses built in many places and yet I was the one that Obasanjo was after.  I am comfortable in my four-bedroom flat.

Q: What do you think of the Abuja master plan and the demolitions that were carried out against the abuse of the master plan?

When some people came and were trying to hide their inadequacies, they alleged that previous administrations abused the master plan.  Then, I said that if you are talking about the abuse of the Abuja master plan, then you must start with the presidential lodge. Where the lodge is situated right now is not in the master plan, and so it has to be demolished.  The Vice-President’s residence is not in the master plan, where the federal secretariat is situated now is supposed to be a meeting point for all forms of transportation. When I said that, no one spoke again.  I do not blame Obasanjo because he was seeing me as  Abacha; Obasanjo was tried and properly condemned by the military tribunal. But since Abacha is not alive, he sees me as Abacha.

Q: Granted the fact that the West was not favorably disposed to Abacha, did you  suspect complicity by  the West in his death?

No. Complicity or no complicity, when it is not your time, you cannot die.  I am a Christian; though I do not go to church every day, but I pray every day. Death is in the hands of God. Once it is not yet time, you cannot die.

Q: Are you saying that he was poisoned?

I am not saying that he was poisoned. I said that if it was not his time, it was not possible for him to have died.

Q: So, can you tell us how he died?

He got sick and died.

Q: People say you knew everything about Abacha.

( Cuts in). We were friends and you cannot blame them.  When two friends are so close and anything happens, they would say you know something about it. We were friends. Even in his grave, Abacha is still my friend. I told someone recently that comparing Abacha with Obasanjo is an insult. ( General laughter) You can’t compare the two of them.

Q: What do mean when you say it is an insult to compare Abacha with Obasanjo?

Abacha was a gentleman and an economist. He listened to people and was committed to Nigeria. Abacha carried people along and was always willing to listen to you. With Obasanjo, it was different.

Q: There appears to be peace on the Plateau now. People are saying that military generals like you refused to intervene to arrest the crisis. What are the lasting measures for peace in that state?

People felt that some generals did not intervene; all of us from Langtang. I have always told people you can take a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink water.  If the governor does not take everyone along, what do you expect? You advise the governor and he does something differently. In a situation like that, one person cannot do it all. You have to listen to the people and some of us have been governors. The moment you have this attitude of know-it-all, and you listen to only a small clique, then you have a problem. When trouble starts, it escalates and some people will turn it into a religious issue.

Courtesy: Blueprint Newspapers