THE OBASANJO INTERVIEW

I am ready for probe -Obasanjo says

…Atiku has case to answer

…Some members of my administration are corrupt

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo has admitted that members of his eight years administration were corrupt even as he absolved himself from any act of corruption saying he is ready to face trail.

The former President said his Vice; Atiku Abubakar still has case to answer in the Corruption charges against William Jefferson, the Louisiana Congressman who was indicted on federal charges of racketeering, money-laundering and soliciting more than $400,000 in bribes in connection with years of trying to broker business deals in Nigeria and other African countries.

Obasanjo who was in London recently where the BBC interview was held to attend a conference organized by the London School of Economics and Political Science was greeted by a massive protest organized by the Nigeria Liberty forum, NLF.

Below are excerpts from the interview:

Q: Let us talk about justice and accountability in a more personal setting. And let’s bring the conversation to Nigeria. I’ve looked across the Nigerian press, I’ve listened to people from the National Assembly and I’ve also looked at some records coming out of the courts in your country and America as well and they are serious allegations concerning you and your family on corruption and kickbacks. Are you prepared to face those charges and to give a full account…

Ans: Very, very much so. Very much so. And if you have any evidence, please show it to me and I will defend myself anywhere in the world. It’s absolute nonsense, with all due respect. I am the only leader in Nigeria that has been examined and reported upon by the anti-corruption bodies in Nigeria. I am the only one.

Q: When your successor (Yar’Adua) took over, he described corruption as very endemic and he said it was the country’s elite that was responsible.

Ans: He (Yar’Adua) is one of them.

Q: One of what?

Ans: He is one of Nigeria’s elite.

Q: Of course, he is. And he said that as he took over and looked at what was happening inside government, there is corruption to the very top. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

Ans: If he said that, did he mention Obasanjo? Did he mention Obasanjo?

Q: But, you were the President?

Ans: I am (was) the President.

Q: You were the President and you were responsible for the governance of your country.

Ans: But I am not responsible for the corruption of every Nigerian.

Q: Not every Nigerian but you were in the end; the chief executive of a country which your successor said was endemically corrupt.

Ans: Please, please, please, you have made strong allegations against me personally and against my family…(Almost rising out of his seat in anger and pointing his fore finger at the interviewer).

I’m coming to that…

…and you have no way to substantiate it. Substantiate it. And if not that this is something where you are taking undue advantage, I would have even said that I would go beyond here.

Q: Now, let’s talk specifically, then.

Ans: Yes.

Q: Halliburton and various Halliburton subsidiaries have paid vast amounts of money in fines in the US because of bribes paid out to Nigerian officials. If one takes the testimony…

Ans: (cuts in)…Are those Nigerian officials, am I one of them? (Pointing at the interviewer).

Q: Let’s talk about that. Albert Jack Stanley confessed last year to bribing, and this is according to US court documents and quote, “three successive holders of a top level office in the executive branch of the Nigerian government. He negotiated with these executive office-holders’ representatives regarding the amount of bribes. Now, if one cross-checks that…

Ans: Who are they? Who are they?

Q: I’m coming to that. If one cross-check that with the testimony before a French prosecutor, Jeffrey Tesler, another Halliburton agent involved, I’m sure you know these names…

Ans: Yes, yes…

Q: He named you as one of three Nigerian successive heads of state who had been involved in negotiations with the Halliburton subsidiaries which were later, in a US court, found guilty of bribery and corruption on a massive scale.

Ans: Tesler would never say that.

Q: It’s in the French records.

Ans: Let Tesler bring that out. By the time you say that somebody is guilty of corruption, there must be the giver, there must be the taker and there must be the evidence.

Q: Did you have any communication with Jeffrey Tesler?

Ans: No.

Q: Never?

Ans: No, absolutely not. Not me personally.

Q: As you know, he has been arrested and the US is now seeking his extradition. Are you worried about what he may say in a US court?

Ans: I am not worried. He will bring evidence. I am not worried. I am very, very sure of my position and my stand. Alright. I do not say that people in my government were not corrupt but I am not corrupt.

Q: Let me stop you just there. Are you saying that people in your government were corrupt?

Ans: Of course. Are you saying that the people in the government of any country are not corrupt?

Q: I’m talking about senior people. I’m talking about ministers; I’m talking about your closest allies. Do you now believe that some of them were corrupt?

Ans: Well, my then vice-president (Atiku Abubakar) had something to do with Jefferson, which is part of the case in America. I don’t know whether corruption has been proved or not but he had questions to answer.

Q: Isn’t this a terrible failing? Well, leave aside, perhaps, the courts to decide whether you personally can be held for all this. But do you accept that it was a terrible failing for you as president to see inside your government, at the very top of your government, according to your own successor, that there was rampant corruption?

Ans: I do not accept that. If in any government somebody is found to be corrupt, the onus lies on the head of that government to bring that man to book. When I was the head of government, there was no case of corruption against any minister, any high government official that…

Q: But that sort of system doesn’t work?

Ans: No, I don’t agree with you.

Q: But corruption was prevalent inside your country when you were President and yet, not one senior official inside your government has been convicted of serious corruption.

A: I do not agree with you. You don’t have your facts right. In my government, three ministers were charged to court. In fact, one died in the process. The (former) Inspector-General of Police (Mr. Tafa Balogun) was charged and convicted. The then President of the Senate, in my own party (Adolphus Wabara) was charged to court. A minister of education was charged to court.