Interview with Lanre Ogundipe, the former national president, Nigeria Union of Journalists during the Abacha dark days

Lanre Ogundipe, former National NUJ President during Abacha Era

He expresses strong believe about it. Occasionally, he shows sorrow in order to explain what he calls lack of integrity in the profession he once served as the President. Lanre Ogundipe, former NUJ president from 1997 to 1999, speaks his mind without mincing words. He simply detests the situation whereby anyone can call herself a journalist without the necessary qualification. “Journalism is not a vocation but a profession,” he insists. Applying anecdotes and retrospect, Ogundipe, former Pastor New Covenant Church Budapest, talks about the roles of the press and what it must do to restore the glory of yesteryears. He predicts danger in a situation where indicted politicians are now publishers. Although he regrets that certain individuals have turned journalism into a cash and carry venture while the Press Council fails to indict erring journalists, he is optimistic about the press survival. Excerpt:

 “The Nigerian Press Losing Its Glory”

By Hakeem Babalola

What do you think should be the roles of the fourth estate in a fragile democracy like Nigeria?

The word fragile is subjective. But if you put it in a democracy set up in Nigeria, it will be more subtle. If we have to define fragile, it means something that is breakable; things that are not very strong. I sincerely believe democracy in Nigeria is strong, strong in the sense that the players are the ones that should be up and clean. Democracy in Nigeria is not different from what they’re practicing in (the) US or elsewhere. But the only difference is the players. (Now) when we talk about that one and we move into the details, we would now begin to identify rules being played by each of the sectors or the components that make the entire things to work. It is not only the media; it is not only the press. We have the judiciary, we have the executive, and we have the legislature and we have other aspects (of it). But in sustaining the democracy in Nigeria, the media has to be very honest. The emphasis on being very honest is that whatever we do, it must not be that (the) Nigerian press are only on duty when they are being induced either monetarily, with appointment or whatever. You see, being the fourth estate of the rank means the press is a social conscience of any nation. Therefore, the press must divulge and purge itself of any elements that would corrupt it for shouldering the responsibility of being a truly watchdog of the society and the conscience of the nation. It is only when the press maintain that level that we could play an active role in the sustenance of democracy. When the press (are) now becoming a commercial thing….cash and carry sort of, there’s no role meant for the press in maintaining or sustaining democracy. Because once your hand is soiled, there’s a popular dictum that says he who goes to equity goes with a clean hand. I think we need to re-phrase that dictum now: that he who goes to equity not only goes with a clean hand but must go with a clear conscience. When the press does not have a clear conscience, then there’s no way that whatever you preach will be adhere to.

In that case, should nation building be the priority of the press?

Like I said earlier, nation building is not solely the work of the press alone. We have other components. Apart from those ones that are constitutionally recognised, other professional bodies also have means of contributing to the nation’s development……

The question is should nation building be the priority of the press?

Yes, it should be its priority. This is because it is the fourth estate of the realm. Journalists are also regarded as the social conscience of the nation. And if the social conscience of the nation bestowed on the media by the role they are playing in any given society is soiled in whatever form, it would be difficult for that nation to grow. Take for example the years we were under the military in Nigeria. Thank God that we have few elements in the law profession crying on top of their voices to make things known. Thank God that we have few elements in the medical profession. Thank God we have them in other professions. People that bore all these sorry things that the military has foot stamped on the nation. Go and check the roles of the press in nation building. It is so strategic that you cannot undermine the press when it comes to nation building. Once the press is compromise, it affects the structure of that nation. And be it whatever, the press has a role in nation building.

But what if the press got the idea of nation building wrong?

In what form is that?

For instance, we’ve been having autocratic regimes in which the press either directly or indirectly supported. Today, we are still facing the same problem

The Nigerian mediaeven during the pre-independence has championed whatever has become of Nigeria nation up till date. Having said that, I do not even remember when the media veered off its way to support any dictatorial regime in Nigeria. But as a matter of fact, I would say that individual practitioners, not the media as a group now, individual practitioners might have veered off their way in lending support to some of these autocratic regimes. The media in Nigeria could not be accused of lending support to autocratic regimes. I can mention on my finger tips many of the war we have waged against dictatorial regimes in Nigeria.

Please do mention those wars

Ok, you would remember when Gowon was shifting dates of handing over to a democratically elected government; it was the media that championed it. It was what led to the 1975 coup that brought Murtala/Obasanjo regime into being. Though the media did not participate in organising coups, but vehemently opposed to it. Of course most of us were young then. I had not even become an active journalist during that period but I was a prospective person eager to enter into the profession. But I remember what the media did then. We knew the writings of Alade Odunewu, Ebenezer Williams, the late Abiodun Aloba, Sam Amuka the publisher of Vanguard now. We knew the roles they played even when the Shagari regime between 1979 and 1983 were becoming more notorious in swindling government money. We knew the roles the Nigerian press played in spite of the hardship they were forced to grasp with during the regime of Buhari/Idiagbon – under decree 4. The Nigerian press never succumbed to that pressure. The battle was fought on a hard line. Many of my colleagues went to prison. Tunde Thompson was imprisoned, Uduka Irabor was sent to jail under the same decree. And even when Babangida came on the saddle, preaching democracy to us – a military man preaching democracy to us! The Nigerian press never blinked an eye in spite of the fact that many of our senior colleagues were real loaded into supporting that regime. And that is why I said you can’t accuse the entire media of complicity in supporting autocrat regimes. You may be able to single out individuals who let credence to those illegitimate governments at any point in time. The Nigerian press has stood by the Nigerian public all the time, even till now in spite of some misgivings apparent in the practice.

Are you saying that journalism of yesteryears is the same as that of today in Nigeria?

No, I am not saying that. You would be getting it wrong if you say that journalism of yesteryears is the same practice that we have today. Thank God for the technology advancement, thank God for the institutions of higher learning that we have ……our graduates in mass communication, language arts and the rest of it. This is a good improvement on what we had before. Because what we had before was just any dropout finding succour in becoming a journalist. But in the last twenty years, things have changed. We now have graduates becoming journalists. We have PHD holders who are journalists. These are the positive sides. However if you look at the practice today, many things have crept into the practice that were not there before. The kind of training we had when we were court reporters was that you couldn’t make money in journalism but you can make name. And we were well grounded in the integrity of the profession. What is paramount in our mind is that we want to excel. It is not the issue of money. We have to be honest at this point. The profession doesn’t have second hand value. You’re only remembered when you’re in active duty. Once you’re thrown off duty, nobody remembers you. And I think that was what the new generation in the practice saw.

What do you mean by the new generation?

I mean the new comers into the profession.

From when to when?

The advent of this something (new generation) became noticeable in the early 90’s but it was not that obvious. Towards the late 90’s an average journalist would tell you that they wanted to make money. And then they go out to do all sorts of things that we consider abominable in the practice of the profession. Because if you pass through the likes of Osoba, Sam Sam (Amuka Penu), Gbolabo Ogunsanwo, Tola Adeniyi, Yemi Farounbi and the rest, you won’t be thinking that you want to go and compromise to get money. Because you know if your boss gets to know in the office, you’ll be fired. Today, those who sit as editors send reporters out to do all these nonsense. Mind you, there are editors and there are editors. We know as of today many editors in Nigeria that would raise their heads come rain come sunshine. But we have also seen that many mushroom news media organisations have sprung up overnight.

Can you mention the names of these mushroom news media?

I won’t mention names. I won’t mention names. But we have seen that many mushroom media organisations have sprung up overnight to say that they are media practitioners. And these sets of people have corrupted the entire system. Imagine someone who wakes up from the other side of his bed establishing a newspaper and recruiting journalists. Governors indicted by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission are springing up both left and right coming up with newspapers. And these are the people being rated as the best that could happen. See, this is part of the abomination we are witnessing in the media practice. So every structure has been thoroughly politicised.

Is journalism a vocation or profession?

Well, Journalism is not a vocation. And I beg to disagree. Journalism is not a vocation. Journalism is a profession. We had a running battle over this some years back. The fore runners in the profession like I said allowed Tom, Dick and Harry free assess to come into practice. Even the government looks down on journalists. I remember my days as the president of NUJ. I took one of the ministers up. His name is Sarumi, information minister under Obasanjo. Even in age, I am his senior. I left school before him. How could such person now be looking down on me, calling me press boy? And I told him he had better stopped that. I won’t take that one from anybody be you president of Nigeria. I am not a press boy. And it’s because journalists can be called at any point for events. One idiot could just pick up a phone saying, please can you give us coverage and journalists are running there. Can you pick up your phone and call any medical doctor to come and meet you? Can you call any lawyer that you’re having any event – without any prior notice? Can you walk into any surveyor’s office and ask him to pick his gadgets to survey the land for you? That is what our fore runners in the profession turned the thing into. I have a degree, you have a degree so what makes a doctor better than a journalist? We were canvassing to be treated like any other reputable professions. Journalists deserve to be treated like a lawyer or a doctor. Therefore, journalism is not a vocation, it’s a profession. Now I can go to court and handle a case by myself. Does that make me a lawyer without going to any law school? I can be versed in legal something or whatever. That does not make me a lawyer. I don’t have a prerequisite to become a lawyer. I have to go to school and learn the trade. So because you have flair for writing does that make you a journalist? I have seen many columnists calling themselves journalists. Like my respected egbon, Lam Adesina would call himself a journalist. He is not a journalist. He’s not. The mere fact that you can write does not make you a journalist. We call them opinion or feature writers. But if you’re a journalist, you must have a qualification, a prerequisite that qualifies you.

Like?

HND OR OND in mass communication or a diploma from any recognised institution of journalism – that is accredited by the technical board. So you can’t just come, and that was why we said that without a prerequisite in mass communication or journalism or language arts, you’re unqualified to become a journalist. But it’s only in journalism you see someone with BA Arabic or BA Yoruba becoming a journalist. That is one of the fundamental issues we have been fighting over years in setting out roles and objectives for the journalism practice in Nigeria.

So in that sense what makes you a journalist is to have a right qualification

What makes you a journalist first and foremost is that you must have training, training in journalism or mass communication. Not just BA UTC, or BA Kingsway or BA Leventis (Laughter).

What about someone who doesn’t have the qualification but has been in journalism for a long time?

Like I said, we have our forerunners in the profession who do not have basic prerequisites but over the years they have practised and excelled in the profession. Yes, we acknowledge them…we receive them…we regard them. Those are the forerunners. But let me tell you, there’s no media organisation in Nigeria today that would employ someone who doesn’t have a paper qualification in journalism. They won’t allow you to practice because you’ll become a liability. Imagine you don’t know anything about syntax and figurative! Our tool is the language. When you don’t have the command of the language, what are you going to work with?

Then somebody who has BA in English could practice journalism since he has the tool you’ve just mentioned

Somebody who has BA in English could say I have BA in English. But if you know you want to practice journalism, go for a post graduate diploma. For God sake, go for a post graduate diploma. For having just BA in English does not qualify you to become a journalist.

Now, is journalism an end onto itself or a stepping stone?

Well, we have many lawyers for examplein the profession now. Prince Tony Momoh is one. He is a journalist and a lawyer. My good friend in the Guardian, Gbadamosi, is also a journalist before becoming a lawyer. We have Ranti Adeleti, a distinguished media man before becoming a lawyer. It depends on individuals. Yusuf Olaniyonu, the editor of ThisDay is a lawyer. Tunji Bello is a lawyer; he was the editor of the defunct National Concord. We have array of them in the media profession.

Is it part of the ethics of the profession for a journalist to become government’s spokesperson?

Hum… one, every government wants relationship with the media. It needs an individual within the press who could bridge the gap; someone to inform the entire public about its programmes and events. There’s nothing bad in that. We have minister for health who is a medical doctor because he knows that sector. It would be difficult for any governor to have picked a layman like me to head the ministry of health. I may have a faint idea but I won’t be able to handle many of the issues that would come – professionally.

So you support the idea of journalists being spokespersons for governors and presidents

Who else could have done that job if not the media man! It’s the media related issue. That’s the essence of what I have been saying. It’s the media related office. Who else could have been appointed? So a media man can be offered the job for as long as he is competent.

You were the NUJ national president between 1997 and 1999. Describe your experience. Was your life in danger at any time? Did you at any time feel conflict of interest? Why did you serve only 2 yrs?

Well, my life has always been like that from the onset even before I became the NUJ national president. I have been an activist all along within the labour group. Even at the state level when I was the chairman, some of the governors in my area of jurisdiction then found it so difficult to relate with me. They thought I was hot-headed. And I was on the security watch most of the time. But during my period of leadership as NUJ president which was under the Abacha regime – and you know what that means. When many people were running away from the country, I was offered to be ferried out of the country but I refused to be ferried out because I knew we were pursing a goal and I was committed to that goal. And we thank God that we were able to see it through.

And what was the goal?

Yes we were asking Abacha to leave. And as we had it God took him away from the place.

So your life was in danger

Oh yes, oh yes, there’s no doubt about that…there’s no doubt about that.

Can you mention a specific case when your life was in danger?

I don’t think I want to talk about that now. You would find some of these things in my memoir later.

Do you think that Nigerian journalists are better than those they criticise? And what should be the objective of writing?

One, I could not determine what should be the objective of writing. Neither would I suggest that this particular something should be the objective of writing. But are Nigerian journalists better than those they criticise? I would say no. Even some of the things we criticise others of doing, we are worse…we are worse. I don’t want to bring it down to specifics. There’s a part in the bible that says before you can remove specks from another man’s eyes, first remove your own. And that is what I would also recommend to the journalism profession. Most of the things we criticise others of doing, when we are given the privilege to make a change we often throw such privilege to the dogs. So that is what I would say. We often throw such privilege to the dogs.

Who are your role models?

My role models! I may run into problem in that. But I know that I have people that I admire. But I would leave the issue of role model to some other day. But I have people that I admire.

What about those you can vouch for in the profession today?

In the press today, I still have a few people. When I say few and I mean few. We thank God that people like our elder brother and our senior, Sam Amuka Pemu is still alive…Sam Sam, the publisher of Vanguard, is one person in a million that I would forever doff out my hat for. The man stand for anything you could call honesty. And that has been his life all through. There are several others even among the new generation. We still have a few that we can be proud of.

Is it acceptable if journalists accept bribe, gratification or patronage as long as they don’t suppress information?

Let me put it this way. For as long as you take gratification from any one, your sense of judgement has been bought. Once you take any gratification from anybody, your sense of judgement has been bought. Your conscience has been bought. We often make this joke in the newsroom. When a colleague enters the newsroom and others are saying that this story smells Gulder (beer) what they are saying invariably is that such colleague has received gratification. One of my big ogas (Mr Felix Adenaike) would say, “Look, if you want to make money in journalism, get out of that profession. You can’t make two things together in journalism. Even up till now he often reminds me of this whenever I meet with him. If you want to pick money pick money and if you want to pick a career, a name for yourself – pick it. You can’t have money and make a name. But these days we have people who take both left and right and still in the good reckoning. They are the ones people recognised. We have them. We have them in the media.

Don’t you think the “CODE OF ETHICS FOR NIGERIAN JOURNALISTS” is outdated judging from the way journalism is being practiced today in the country? For example, Sec 8 (VIOLENCE) says “A journalist should not present or report acts of violence, armed robberies, terrorist activities or vulgar display of wealth in a manner that glorifies such acts in the eyes of the public”.

I think the code of ethics that we reviewed in 1997 or 1998 in Ilorin ought to have been reviewed by now. Because that aspect you’re referring to has been defeated by the reportage of violence in the media. When we came up with this submission in Ilorin in 1998, what was at the back of our mind that time was to protect the interest of the nation; to protect the life of the citizens; and not to endanger the life of our younger ones by exposing them to these kinds of news item! It’s what was in our mind when we gathered in Ilorin to enact this particular CODE OF ETHICS. But also let me bear my mind out on this so there won’t be any ambiguity. The norms and practice of the profession have been thrown into the waste bin for long. I remember when some of us were being recruited into the profession; we were given what was called handbook. And I think every media organisation have its own style, its own policy of news reporting. And we were taken through the rudimentary stages of what the conduct…our conduct should be. But if we look at it in Nigeria today, we hire people without proper initiation into the norms of the practice. Even those who sit as judges at the newsroom – I call them judges because they are news editors. They are the gatekeepers. But what is their experience? I am not questioning their education background. What I’m saying is the kinds of experience gathered over the years to enable them see the implication of such reports. What most of the editors are looking for now is screaming banners. Oh, 25 die in Port-Harcourt; Eh, 45 people were kidnapped today. But what are the implications of those reports in the larger society – including the youths? These are some of the fundamental issues that we need to sit together and discuss. All the stakeholders in the media: the Newspaper Proprietors, the Press Council, NUJ, and the Guild of Editors. But some of these things have been turned into a political organisation now – to serve individual self interest. People seek such posts to fend for themselves. Let’s go back to the basis if at all we want to bequeath something on the coming generation.

What about the Press Council?

The press council was to serve as a watchdog of the media. What is their role? They were just collecting government money without doing anything. If they have not been playing their role as they ought to, then what is the government thinking? Why are they funding an organisation that does not have an impact on the sector for which it was established? How many journalists have been brought to trial? How many journalists have been brought to book against the code of ethics in Nigeria? And if they said they have, let them mention any of these journalists. And what was the reprimand? What was the punishment? I was not in their good reckoning because they know that I can’t be bought. They even came up with the idea that the government should register journalists who should practice. The Newspaper Proprietors Association, the Guild of Editors under Remi Oyo supported the idea. In one of our meetings in the vanguard (office) hosted by Sam Sam, they asked my opinion, and I said that such proposal would not see the light of the day. For government to be registering who should be journalists! But they would always have their way because, I am sorry, I don’t intend to disparage anyone. I don’t know the focus of some of my colleagues concerning the practice of journalism. It’s getting worse. It’s really getting worse. This is ten years now…ten years in Ilorin and they have not re-visited that code of ethics.

Former Abia State Governor, Orji Kalu, was once voted Man of the Year by the Anambra Council of NUJ. I would like you to comment on this.

One, Orji is a good friend. Orji in his own way might have contributed to the social development of that state. Two, the parameters by which they are picking the man of the year I don’t know. I don’t know whether Kalu has a case with the EFCC and now NUJ says he is the man of the year. It is good to commend and to point out the noticeable good works being done by the people.Do you know thatby my ownjudgement man of the year might not even be someone who had employed journalists? Man of the Year might be ordinary people who have contributed meaningfully to the community or society in which he or she lives. Like I said, we have our preferences. We give awards to people base on what we have seen them doing as a contribution to the generality of the people not towards me as a benefit. Giving award is not about money but integrity. Where does integrity lies in this case? How could you declare someone who has been indicted and is in the law court the Man of the Year! The court is yet to decide the case or pronounce him guilty. Are we not pre-empting the court by giving him the award? And with this kind of a situation there’s a motive behind such awards.

Do you think it is this kind of motive that is behind Thisday Newspaper’s awards?

Duke is my friend. I call him Duke. Duke is my friend. Not all things that glitter are gold. For the mere fact that ThisDay is doing it does not mean it is right. For the fact that they are doing it does not confirm the legitimacy of what is right. In those days giving awards was about name not money; integrity not affluence. But today it’s jamboree which has contributed little to the moral and social development. Yet we are talking about integrity. It is not that we have not seen these things in the past but it was used to influence development – on the positive side. We felt the impact in those days when Daily Sketch used to organise similar event. What are the impacts being felt by these awards? What are the impacts? What are the positive impacts? Journalism (in Nigeria) has abandoned its first love and we need to go back to it. That is the truth. Integrity…integrity! Many newspapers are now springing up by those who have looted the public treasury; hiring journalists to work for them. A state governor who was alleged to have embezzled money and who is still standing trial is now attending government functions as a newspaper proprietor. Don’t we have a sense of shame? Where does integrity lies? IBB also wanted to find a relevant by coming into the media but he could not. There’s no media organisation that could stand that of IBB – Triple Heritage. But the Nigerian press shut him down in spite of the enormous money he invested.

You said the media shut IBB down. Why is the same media unable to shut down ex-governors now running newspapers?

That’s why I said the media could not be blame. It’s an individual thing. Behind Tinubu there’s Dele Alake of this world. Are they not with him giving advice on what to do against the press or to do in the press? What are we talking about? We are talking about moral decadency in the media. It’s not from outside, it’s from within. When you have people who are tainted from the head to toe with corruption and you’re talking about integrity, which integrity are you talking about? Why do you think journalists are not being respected by the government? Because they see us as hustlers! Give them money they are ready to do anything.

On the other hand, don’t you think they provide jobs for journalists?

Yes, they do give jobs to journalists but it is to protect their interests in the name of practicing journalism.

What are the possible solutions to restore the integrity of the profession?

It’s a long journey. But they say a journey of one thousand miles start with a footstep. We need to start somewhere. And that is why I suggested that all the stakeholders in the press need to come together. We need to sit at a round table. We need to look into our past, see what is in our present before we can now take a leap into the future. Without that I am afraid…

With all this trouble, why are you not currently inside to restore the integrity of the profession you once head?

I may not be in active practice for now but I am still in the profession. I am just taking what I would call my sabbatical leave – from active practice. We would still bounce back into the profession by the grace of God in no distant time. We are cooking something and by the time we’re done with it, we would be back. This is the only profession I know. It is the only work I have ever done in my life. I cannot start at this age now to go and learn carpentry or to do any other thing. Whatever I have today I give God the glory. And I want to say that journalism made me. You see, I am not the only person that is concerned about the space of journalism. There are others who are also more concerned than I do; that are worried about the space of journalism.

So we should be expecting something spectacular in this year or next year

Oh, the time and the season belong to God. He makes everything possible in his own time. I know the time will come.

As ex-NUJ president, do you honestly think that journalists will misuse or abuse the Bill of Information if passed into law?

Who are the people looking at the bills? That is what we should look at. Who are the people scrutinizing the bill? In the word of Shakespeare the evil that men do live after them. Why are they afraid of FOI? If they are sure of themselves that there’s no skeleton in their wardrobe, why are they afraid?

But their argument is that journalists will abuse it…

Why are they sayingjournalists will abuse it? You don’t preempt issues. Why are they saying journalists will abuse it? Why don’t you pass it into law and let see how they will abuse it? You are in public office and you are holding that office in trust – for the people. People should ask you questions…they should ask you questions. If people who governed this nation as a military men and the same set of people are now coming in flowing agbada to say that journalists will abuse FOI, does it not tantamount to decree 4 again? Are they not trying to bring decree 4 through the back door to gag the press so that the press would not be able to perform his functions? And some of those presiding over it were ministers or State governors before! They are people who should be called for questioning. But they are afraid of their past. The issue should not be whether the press will abuse the bill or not. Why are they looking at the negative side? Why are they not looking at the positive side? For instance, that the public deserve to know about the trust placed in their hands? Although journalists know how to get their information, but there are things that can happen in discharging those functions if this act does not come into existence. If you go to ask for information for example, a civil servant may say that he is not expected to attend to the press. But if this bill is passed into law, then one can walk into any office and ask questions. That is what they want to prevent. That is what they want to prevent. At least as a journalist I can walk up to the senate and say Mr. Senate president sir, you have been in the service for two or close to two years now, can you give us the stewardship of your office? And in the course of doing that, I would now put one or two questions to him. But they don’t want that. They want you to come through a process whereby you submit your questions to them for them to have a ready answer to some of the things they want to say.

Do you support the removal of the immunity clause from the constitution?

Yes. If you’re a public officer you must not be above the law. Why are you being protected when you’re violating the spirit of the office you sworn to uphold? Why should that same office now protect you from facing the law? I mean when you have violated every aspects of the same oath of office you have taken. So why do you want the same office to shield you from the law. Although I am not ruling out the possibility of some mischievous elements trying to use the removal to throw one or two things, but the fact is not all Nigerians are gullible. When someone is throwing one useless thing up there, many other people would be ready to disagree with him. I won’t want to throw tantrum because I know that if I am not careful it will bounce back to me. And the consequence will not be good enough, so why would I engage on that?

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