Former Senate President, Adolphus Wabara turned 60 recently. He spoke with some selected Journalists on his life and political journeys so far. Senator Wabara who resigned over a bribe allegation in this interview alleged that former president Obasanjo ruined his family by engineering the closure of Hallmark Bank while some of his trusted friends and allies whom he refused to name betrayed him.

Excerpts:

Former Senate president Adolphus Wabara

You would be 60 on Sunday (today), June 1. Can you spare a thought for Nigeria?
In the first place, I want to thank God Almighty i for making it possible for me to attain 60. I hope I would be able to make it on the 1st (today). And, if I do, it’s going to be a landmark so to speak because turning 60 on a Sunday is very, very remarkable and that means if it’s the usual saying of three scores plus ten, I’m beginning to feel that I will... from Sunday, my God would protect me till I would have that ten. Having said so, I want to thank Nigerians, particularly my people, for making it possible for me to get to where I am today. My health is fairly okay and politically, I thank my God for what he has done for me through my people and through Nigerians generally. So, what I want to tell Nigerians generally is that patience is the key and we would get there.

Three years out of power as the Senate president and a year out of the Senate as a Senator, how has life been for you?
Life has been very merciful in the sense that everyday, since 2005 when I left that position, the number three position, I have been reflecting on the things I did, things I didn’t do well, and those that I needed to do which I didn’t do. And that’s why, as we speak, I cooperate with the leadership of the Senate. I try to talk to them; if they care to listen and where I think with my little experience they should do things well. It’s been a very lonely life since then, lonely in the sense that everybody must move on; and, in Nigeria, once you are out of power, nobody remembers you at all. And it would happen. It happened. It’s not just with me.

It’s not just about whether you are loved or liked; it’s about, you know, what Nigerians want to get out of somebody in power.

I’m sure those of us who left the scene since that time must have the same experience I’m sharing with you today. But be that as it may, it’s very interesting and you have more time with your family. You spend more time with your family. One occasion, you spend time with your constituents and continue to guide them aright. Otherwise, it’s generally very interesting. You have more time to yourself; you read newspapers and see what is happening. So, I think it’s been very interesting, quite frankly. Although the loneliness is there in the sense that some of us who are still very active would want to move on; but, then, you are cautious of where you move in to; you just don’t move to anywhere. And those who are in positions are still busy battling (tackling) national issues. There’s no time for relaxation but we are more relaxed now.

So, sir, what were those things you would have loved to do that you didn’t do considering your sudden exit from power?
Well, you’ve said it all. It’s only life you cannot tell, it’s only death you cannot predict when it would come. If you have a four-year tenure, and you keep planning on what to do within the four years and suddenly, you have a sudden death, then, you would appreciate that you would probably have quite a number of things you couldn’t have done. But having said so, I think there were certain things one didn’t do right when one was there and a lot of things one could have done had I known I was leaving office so early. But I thank God all the same that I left office at the time I left, because as I keep saying of my opposition to the earlier incarnation of the third term project. So, if you look at all those things, put them together, you would be wondering…because as at that time, my profile was very high, at the risk of being immodest. But suddenly, because of the third term agenda which had been discussed earlier, I stood my ground. I said no and plans were being hatched, left, right and centre to get me out of the way… because the only institution that could have given that third term any teeth was the National Assembly.

The kangaroo National Reform Conference (which) aided the gentleman to handle it at his own expense could not give that third term project life. And since I had opposed it when it was being discussed earlier, and I was still heading the National Assembly, where it would fall back to after it had failed at the National Reform Conference, there was no point having a Mr. No on seat if you wanted to bring back that agenda to the Senate or the National Assembly. I don’t want to go into details but that was what led to me leaving early. When I talk of my opposition to the earlier incarnations of third term, of course you will see that my attitude was being keenly watched. It was responsible for my being denied the national honour of GCON, while my successor, within three months was given one. Of course that was in the hope that he will play ball and support the tenure elongation project but he too played on the side of the people as a child of circumstance.

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With the benefit of hindsight, would you say that some of the people you trusted at that time betrayed you?
Yes. A lot of the people I trusted when I was in power betrayed me. I don’t want to mention names but they know themselves.

Aside your opposition to third term, we also learnt that you were nursing a presidential ambition. Could that have been the last straw?
I have addressed this issue a number of times. There was never a time Senator Adolphus Wabara nursed a presidential ambition.

Was there no such idea even during the World Igbo Congress which you attended?
I never did. Never! You know, what happened was that on the 20th of February, 2005, that day was a Muslim holiday. I came in from Ghana, very ill. My colleagues from the South East had told me they wanted to mark the Muslim holiday in my country home. I have a large heart but I didn’t know that some of them had some plans. I said fine. I made arrangements and then, no Senator was on good terms with his governor in the entire South East. So, when they came, I hosted them and when they were about leaving, Senator Arthur Nzeribe got up and said, ‘hey, we like what you are doing in the Senate.

Now that we don’t have any governor and the Presidency would be up for grabs in 2007, and we don’t want to support any governor from the east, you are our rallying point. We are endorsing you for the Presidency from the South East. Immediately, in fact, that was my only reaction throughout that meeting, because I was very ill, I said: No, No, I wasn’t interested. He now said: No, No, if you don’t like the word endorse, we are urging you. I told him both the words ‘endorsing’ and ‘urging’, I’m not interested. I told them to restrict themselves to my performance in the Senate for which I was really very appreciative, I was very happy that for once, during my tenure, my brothers would rally round him and give me that support. I said they should restrict themselves to that. And as that argument or discussion was going on, one of us went to my garden and placed a call to the Presidency or to Obasanjo, intimating them of what was happening. And of course, you know, since the man had the inordinate ambition, he would not take prisoners at all. He would not take prisoners at all. So, he believed the story hook, line and sinker.

But when we got back to Abuja, a communiqué was issued restricting themselves to my performance in the Senate. But the damage had been done and of course, a man who lives by the sword would never allow a sword pass by his back. So, they didn’t want to take chances at all; whether it was true or not; the fact was that it was ever mentioned at all, they said, let us destroy him. And that was how that destruction started. But that person is also paying dearly for it now because I believe in my biblical saying; that the Lord shall fight for you and you would keep your peace. They are all suffering one by one and I thank my God that within a year, every one of them who had a hand in touching the Lord’s anointing is somehow paying very dearly for it. I don’t want to go into details.

Those who got in there within one or 17 days, they were out; those who spent all their money that they could have, they didn’t get there. So, you do unto yourself what you do unto others. It’s there in the Bible.

Still on tenure elongation, during the debate, you said your people didn’t want tenure elongation. Today, one of the former governors, who has been touted as one of the biggest financiers of third term is now canvassing for tenure elongation. In fact, he is canvassing for more than that. He wants two terms of seven years, making 14 years for the incumbent. What is your immediate reaction to that?
It was shocking that Saminu Turaki, now Senator, could make such a statement. If he’s looking for a way out, he should not play on the intelligence of Nigerians and there’s nothing on earth…As politicians, you enjoy when you’re in position and also, when you don’t serve well, the next place is not your bedroom, its prison. Once you decide that you are a politician, just keep an open mind. That’s why, when Iyabo was running helter skelter, she’s a politician. A politician must be prepared for the best and for the worst! So, Turaki should not come throw the carrot. But I went deeper into that statement and I think it’s an agenda. It’s a northern agenda that Nigerians should watch.

Nigerians should watch and thank God, that there’s this Constitutional Amendment Committee now. They should not allow them. The best that should happen to us is to allow the present government to rule the next eight year, that is up to 2015 and then, we should now be talking of a one-term of six years so that it can go round. Every geo-political zone wants to rule, wants to be called and known as president. The South South is there. The South east where I come from, we are there, waiting. If you allow this, of course, it’s something that we should watch very closely, whether the north is really prepared to return this power. It doesn’t belong to them; it doesn’t belong to them. So, we should analyse what Turaki has said very closely because there is saying in Yoruba that, ‘what the wise men say, you hear from the mouth of a mad person.’

You were once a custodian of Senate rules. Is it proper for committees of the Senate to receive funding from ministries they have oversight functions over for their activities?
(Sighs deeply) You see, it depends. It really depends. If in the budget of the ministry, there is provision for that, it doesn’t have to be spent for legislators…If there is a contingency travel and from there, the ministry wants to lobby the committee, lobbying here is not bribery. It’s done everywhere; in America, lobby is everywhere. Now, I believe that the ministry can now squeeze out some funds from a particular sub-head that has relevance with what is happening. It could be for seminar or whatever. It’s just like recruiting or engaging consultants. Is there anywhere it is written in the budget that you must use this fund to recruit consultants? No. So, I mean, they can say, ‘Chairman of committee, overseeing my ministry, here is a ticket for you…Just as they can invite chairman of a bank or industry to join…The Executive do it when they are going on Economic Summit somewhere. They bring a Chamber of Commerce and maybe in this case, or at times, they pay for them. But because the Chambers are also very active, they pay for themselves. But for a Legislature that is cash-strapped, that doesn’t have money, it is not out of place. It depends on where the money is coming from.

I’m considering what you suffered. Some have said the case of Iyabo was treated with kid gloves, was given preferential treatment, considering that both the minister and the junior minister had earlier faced trial. How do you feel?
Going by my earlier response to your question; whether ministries can fund trips on behalf the legislature, I give kudos to what the Senate did, defending…I don’t have the details, the source of the money. If I gave you that response, of course, I cannot now reprobate.

The Senate did well by defending Iyabo because I understand that they went into an Executive session, explained the source of the money, and what the money was meant for and even … If the money had been returned, if it had been returned, she would still have been in trouble. I heard and so, I don’t want to go into details. So, since she didn’t know the source of that money and it was meant for the committee and all the committee members attest to the fact that the money got to them, for that purpose, there is nothing wrong with that. In my own case, I’ve given you a background. The Executive wanted me out. If the Executive had an interest in Iyabo’s case, it would have taken my own dimension. It’s not as if Ken Nnamani planned to take over from me. No. it was just circumstantial. So, if not for the interference of the Executive, they would also have come to my rescue because I had given my defence because what Adighije said, his first statement was very clear. The money didn’t get to me and that day, my wife was celebrating her birthday.

So, nobody wanted to listen because somebody didn’t want them to listen. Before then, there were plans with Iwu to resurrect the matter, whether I won my election or not, until this opportunity came up. So, it’s left for the courts to decide. They have not interfered with the court procedure or proceedings. But they have heard one of their own and it could happen to anybody but they now said no, as far as we are concerned, you are right.

That’s what they ought to have done in my own case but because of the interference from the Presidency that this man must go; nobody was ready to say anything. And I knew that. And I think I would remain the first Senate president to resign, take his seat and then, take part in the election of his successor. It means that it didn’t mean anything to me at all and that’s why up till tomorrow, they would look at me, expect me dead but I’m still surviving.

Was the alleged plan to run for 2007 Presidency and the bribe-for-budget scandal a set up then? Was there a nexus?
Ha! What are we talking about here? You could add two and two. Yes. Yes. Of course, of course, you know my very good friend, Arthur Nzeribe, the type of person he’s made of and these things are done…They just wanted to call a dog a bad name in order to hang it. So, soon as that one was mentioned, nobody was now interested in my immediate reaction. Abana, Senator Abana, is a living witness but today, I’m not sure he would come forward to testify since I swore in Senator Ben Obi in his stead. Otherwise, he was there. He was the one there, myself and himself saying ‘no, we are not talking about Presidency.’

Apparently, he was very close to the Presidency, through Andy Uba and Chris Uba. So, he knew the agenda, he knew the agenda of Obasanjo, well in advance. So, he was very supportive of my position, that no, this man is not interested.

He wasn’t supporting me because he liked me. He was supporting me because he didn’t east that pressure group from the South east to emerge. So, if he was sincere to himself, he would have gone back to the Presidency to say, ‘this man really never wanted to become the president or vie for the Presidency come 2007.’ Since it was their overall agenda that this thing is coming back to the National Assembly and with this man as the head, we would not get it, so, they decided to bring up that issue. Of course, the court would deliver judgement very soon.

You were very close to the former president and that there was also talk you were a favourite of the Aso Rock Presidential villa. You also went to Abeokuta, Obasanjo’s hometown where you were conferred with a chieftaincy title. Do you still enjoy a relationship with Obasanjo on account of the past?
No. I would have taken it as politics because in politics, anything can happen. You don’t have enemies in politics. It’s permanent interest. You cannot keep permanent enmity. But in this case, I’m pained because of this suspicion that I was interested in the Presidency.

The family lost Hallmark Bank. If it had ended with me leaving, because for me… David Mark would leave that place in the next eight years. One day, he would leave the position.

So, I had made up my mind that diamonds are not forever. (I had calculated that) two years, four years, I would leave that position. But I didn’t envisage losing through these mere allegations, a whole bank. Hallmark Bank was not bankrupt! Hallmark Bank was number nine in the whole nation then. But this man insisted…where was he going to get the money to run for the Presidency? Of course, Hallmark Bank because he knew that it was the same Hallmark Bank that financed PDP. So, if Hallmark Bank could finance him and PDP, definitely the same Hallmark Bank could do 10 times that for a brother who wants to be president. But I never had any such ambition. But of course, my brother wouldn’t have even spent a dime of Hallmark Bank to sponsor me. No because we never nursed that ambition. We haven’t even finished what God gave us as Senate president, number three in the country…then, we are now talking of the Presidency. No. That would mean one was very ambitious.

Are you a Christian?
Yes, I am

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But from the way you have spoken, can there still be a place for forgiveness on your part for Obasanjo and whoever may have offended you in the past?
I have forgiven everybody. But if you must say it, you must say it as you feel. That’s just me. But as for forgiveness, I’ve forgiven everybody. And I even thank my God that it happens. When something happens, there is a saying that if something bad happens, you thank God. If something good happens, you thank God. If I hadn’t left the way I left or when I left, I would have been the first Senate president to slump and die. Because I remember when the Mace Bearer is carrying the mace, once he begins to shout Mr President, walking behind him was a problem because I didn’t have balance. I’m telling you the gospel truth. My health was not…because of the stress probably because of the way I took the job. I had no time for my family. I could remain working till 5am only to get up by 7am. No rest. I think God just used that opportunity to say, ‘My friend, get out. I still want you to live long.’ Otherwise…those who did it would probably say, ‘we’ve got him.’ They never got me.

I think that with the benefit of hindsight, you would be grateful that Obasanjo made you Senate president. Are you?
Well, to be grateful. I’ve not said 'am not grateful. But that he made me…It was God that made me Senate president and that was why I did not fight it. If I knew he was the one who made me Senate president, when that matter started….

But he helped you?
Well, yes, just as every president must have.

But you were close to the seat of power. Why did you oppose tenure elongation because it would also have meant tenure elongation for you too as Senate president? Why didn’t you support it?
But it was not fair. It was not. You would recall when I was making my speech on tenure elongation, I did mention that we should allow the other divide…Then, I was a little bit careful but anybody who read in between the lines would know that the other divide meant the North. That we should allow the other divide another eight years; their own eight years before we start talking of tenure elongation and that it shouldn’t even be tenure elongation because Ken Nnamani asked why 2015. I answered him that the other divide must have their own eight years then, we now go into one term, just as I have said here earlier. It could be one term of six years or one term of five years, so that it could go round, so that there would be…Nigeria is not a very strong nation. The only thing that would make us strong and united is if we are fair to one another. And this is why I am critically against Turaki. What he said can lead to the disunity and disintegration of this country. When power was in the South, we were fighting that the North should have their own. Now, it has got to the North; we are not even near 2015 and somebody is hurriedly trying to push this agenda… Haba!

What pitfalls would you advise the National Assembly to avoid in the exercise of amending the constitution?
Well, one is tenure elongation because it will rear its head. It will surely rear its head. We have quite a number of them. But most importantly, it is tenure elongation; and, of course, there is the issue of state creation. State creation must be carefully looked into because we cannot satisfy everybody otherwise, every enclave would want to become a state-whether it is economically viable or not. So, they should not play politics with it. The basis for state creation must be economics-the economics of creating states; and, then there must be that balance because you have more states in the north than you have in the south. We are looking for a way of making this country a very a strong nation. So they should be very careful when they are tackling these two areas.

How is your relationship with the PDP now? After your travails in the hands of Obasanjo, are you now fully back in the party?
Of course, I am fully in the party. Thank God that he could not remove me. I am a member of the Board of Trustees of the party. We are having our next meeting on the 25th of June under the chairmanship of Obasanjo (laughs), which really, my advice to him would have been for him be to throw in the towel. A good orator leaves the stage when the ovation is loudest. But with all these scandals here and there…people like us did not resign because we were guilty; I was the first person, the first Nigerian to call him a thief on the floor of the Senate when I alluded to the fact that he was clinging to power: Is it as Baba or Ali Baba and the forty thieves, Ali Baba being the head thief and the forty people are those who now find…

But then, I expected him to throw in the towel and I know him so well, although he is strong-willed, some other people would have really…because what is happening now is not what he bargained for; he is a man who is still very strong to be in the comity of nations’ Heads of States, having an assignment from America or the United Nations (UN); but that is not coming. For him, I think he should really bow out instead of having every Tom, Dick and Harry talking about Obasanjo who would not really like to have his name smeared the way it is being smeared now. I believe as they say that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as well. When Obasanjo was President of this country, the Senate President’s seat was in the South and the BOT seat was also in the South and I am of the belief that if we must imbibe the spirit of unity, oneness and cooperation, which will move the country forward, then the seat of BOT should move to the North. If we are talking of unity and oneness in the country I believe there are some of the areas we should not overlook.

Having clocked 60, what should we expect from you in terms of your politics and leadership?
Yes, well, one is still available, very strong. In fact, at 60, I still feel as if I am forty but we are there; we will allow the young ones to come up; where they need the experience and guidance of elder statesmen, we are available.